Magali Thomson

Greg Clark 

We were really delighted to discover that Magali Thomson is one of our listeners to The DNA of Cities podcast. I'm delighted that Magali is here today with us. Magali, what have you been enjoying about the series or found meaningful in it? Tell us your experience.

Magali Thomson 

I think what one of the things I've really liked about the series is that it's not focused just on one aspect of cities. I like the fact that you that you speak about a city's history and geography and culture, and you cover all sorts of themes within every episode. So I find that it gives you a really holistic view of a city actually. I think a lot of podcasts focus on maybe one thing, which there's nothing wrong with that but I think that these are really great to get a sort of rounded impression of a city. I think, because you talk about cities in that way, I find that every time I listen to an episode I discover things about cities, which I've lived in which I know really well, but which I didn't actually know. So that there's always something new I find out. I think it's a really good way of looking at cities as well, because I think that they are a product of so many different things in the past and in the present. So I really like that framing of cities that the series holds.

Greg Clark 

I'm really delighted to hear that, of course. So tell us, what does the DNA of Cities then mean to you?

Magali Thomson 

So for me, the DNA of Cities means all sorts of different things. I mean, in terms of the two cities I've listened to most closely, London and Barcelona, probably because I'm half Catalan, my Mum's from Barcelon and I wasn't born in London, but I've been here since I was 21, so nearly 30 years. So they're the cities I know the most, so it's interesting to listen to both of those. It made me think about what I what I find interesting about those cities, and what I would add maybe in terms of traits, or components of those cities which I pick up on.

Greg Clark 

I'm lucky enough to know that in your work, you deal a lot with the relationship between place and health. So how does this idea of the DNA of Cities relate to how you think in your professional life?

Magali Thomson 

So in my professional life, I'm an architect by background and worked in private practice for over 20 years. Then more recently, in the last five years have moved over to working at Great Ormond Street Hospital, which is a children's hospital in central London in an area called Bloomsbury. I'm working there on the streets around the hospital creating a healthy hospital street. I guess this echoes the interest I've had more recently, which I think I got more interested in the spaces in between buildings as opposed to the buildings themselves. So I also did a master’s at the LSE in cities and because of that, I think I've been looking at cities in a different way as well. I think maybe before I used to go and visit cities and look at key buildings by the sort of signature architects in a way. Now when I go to cities, it's interesting, because it's quite recent, but I look at them very differently. I find myself looking at streets and benches, paving and gaps in between buildings, and whether they're used or not used, and whether you might be able to introduce some greenery or not. This is very much a reflection of what I'm doing in my job where we tried to convert a very congested street into a healthy and quieter and more welcoming and more human street so that your journey to a hospital can be less stressful. Obviously, in cities like Barcelona, they've done a huge amount in certainly in the last years, whilst Ada Colau, for example, was mayor, in terms of greening initiatives and converting that plan into a-- which I think shows how flexible the plan was-- into these green super blocks and links between them. So yeah, I find them I'm always looking, looking at those or those kinds of things when I visit cities now.

Greg Clark 

I think this is fascinating and I think your work is fascinating, Magali. I suppose that part of looking at the DNA of a city is also to look at the epigenetics of a city. So how does the experience that is shared between the people and particularly when there are traumatic events and obviously personal illness or an interaction with medical systems can be traumatic, but what I love about the richness of your work is that it indicates that the nature and the quality of the place in which a traumatic experience might occur can actually help not just one human being but whole cohorts of young people in your case to manage that traumatic or that regenerative experience better. It seems to me that the idea of the epigenetics of the city is right at the heart of your work. Does that make sense to you?

Magali Thomson 

Yeah, definitely. I think it's incredible what a small amount of green space, the beneficial effect it can have on people. And there are two small projects we've created on the street, I mean, one is literally a parklet, which is essentially when you take up one parking space, which is usually used by a car, and just-- we turned it into a bench which is surrounded by planting. This is used by over 150 people a day. There were no benches outside the hospital, which is ironic, I think. It's not only used by children, also staff members or members of the community literally for five or ten minutes of respite and also, it also illustrates how-- because we're lucky in Bloomsbury and there are some beautiful squares like Queen Square very near us. But if you're a child who's ill that distance is actually too far. That whole notion of doorstep play, I think, comes into play. In fact, when we close the street to create a yearly play street what happens again to some children who may not have left their beds for four months are able to come down because they might be plugged into equipment and or a need sorts of several support staff with them. So the local squares would be too far. So let's say that doorstep location or having a space to just leave the hospital environment and feel normal again and do normal things like play or sit. It echoes, I think what our CEO said recently, that it's not enough to just treat the children in our hospital, we also need to treat the environment they're in. So it's that whole preventative approach to health. We need to stop waiting to get ill and actually become healthier in terms of our environments. I think again, that's one thing in Barcelona, which works really well, whereby so many streets, I mean, not just the sort of the civic centres or the important squares, but just your standard street has several benches to sit on or has a water fountain at the end of it. They're just very generous and human. That's sort of the norm. Whereas I think that that's not so much the case, maybe in London that there's it's harder to find.

Greg Clark 

So that leads me on to ask you our next question. And I don't want to guess which city you're going to talk about. But the question is, really talk about one city that you know, and its DNA and how you understand its DNA and how you think it has shaped the way the city has evolved or in the way the city expresses itself.

Magali Thomson 

I could talk about London or Barcelona, maybe I'll talk about Barcelona, which is my favourite city that I've been to anyway, I haven't been to many of your cities on the show. I think its DNA is very much related to its location in terms of being surrounded by mountains and being on the sea, which has obviously as you describe in the episode, really influenced its density, if you like, and the way it's grown. Clearly, it's a Catalan city, again, you speak about this a lot. It's a very proud city, I think it feels it doesn't feel that it necessarily needs other cities or governance structures. It's kind of very independent and very unique in that sense, very proud. I think you can really sense that in the way that it's been very ambitious in the way it's grown. Obviously, the Olympics were really key, it's created areas, such as my parents have a flat in Diagonal Mar which is the area-- sort of the newer part of the city if you like, and it's got a very a fantastic connection to the seafront now, which you didn't necessarily have before. Just the variety of activities that happen on that seafront are fantastic you know, ranging from volleyball to dancing to all ages as well. I think another unique thing about Barcelona and its public spaces are that you see people of all ages in them, I think is a very multi-generational city. I'm in London now where my daughter's sixteen and she's at that age where that I don't think there are many spaces for teenagers, for example, in London, they seem to hang out in the park at night, which isn't great. Whereas that just made me think how in Spain, well certainly in Barcelona, there are many squares which have all different ages. You know, you could have a bunch of teenagers sitting on a bench or grandparents sitting in the bar, someone going to buy some vegetables. I mean, it's all sort of mixed in a really healthy, welcoming way where no one feels ostracised or that they can't go there. I think that's another quite unique thing about Barcelona although I dare say that's probably maybe more of a Mediterranean approach as well. But I see it a lot in Barcelona. So I think, yeah, I think the geography and its approach to public space and its approach to families all have big influences in terms of the DNA of Barcelona. And the climate, I do think the climate is pretty perfect, really, in terms of-- we're going there next week, and it's December, and it apparently is sort of about three, four degrees in the morning but by lunchtime, it's seventeen degrees and sunny. And you can't get much better than that, really. So there's several, several components, I think feeding into what makes it great.

Greg Clark 

I think this is a lovely way to think about it, Magali. I certainly remember being on the beach in Barcelona in January, which is such a strange thing to be able to do. But I think you've pulled out three really interesting strands of Barcelona's DNA: the Mediterranean context that provides this climatic and this waterfront dimension, the participative nature of Catalan culture, and this whole idea of multiple generations together, doing things. Then this process of regeneration that has recreated the space in which the Catalan culture can express itself in the Mediterranean climate and how much Barcelona has inspired the rest of the world with its recreation of public space as part of the regenerative process. I think that's one reason-- in the points that you're highlighting-- it's one reason why Barcelona has simply been such an inspiring city for so many people. So I'm so glad you've talked about that. I want to ask you now, and you may wish to include others, but of course, we've already had Barcelona and London in the series. So which cities would you like us to include in future series or future episodes? And why?

Magali Thomson 

I didn't spot-- tell me if I've missed it-- but I didn't spot any of the maybe more Nordic cities like Copenhagen or Reykjavik or Aarhus. I recently went to Aarhus and thought, I love that city. I thought it was fantastic. And I think it shared a shed some of the generosity of public realm that had been talking about in terms of Barcelona and it also felt incredibly civilised. You know, there are lots of cafes, with families playing board games in them, the history of the design culture there was very much apparent in every sort of streetlamp or chair that you sat on. I thought that was a very interesting place. So, that would be interesting.

Greg Clark 

Let me respond and say, I'll make you a promise that we will have at least one Nordic city in the next series and whether it will be Aarhus, Copenhagen, or whether it's Stockholm or Helsinki, or Helsingborg, or Gothenburg, or whether it's Oslo, or Bergen, I'm not sure. But we'll certainly get a Nordic city. And there is something about the sense of space in the Nordic cities and the idea of big space, relatively small populations, but incredibly interesting societies, and how they're adjusting to 21st century realities that I think could be a great topic to pick up on. Magali it's great to have you here with us. Is there anything else you want to say about the DNA of cities?

Magali Thomson 

I was only going to add I don't know if it's of interest, but in terms of London. I was in terms of my Catalan family visiting London, the things that they find striking about London are the grass and the parks and the green. They always say we need to see the verde, the verde, the green, and they're things that maybe when you live in London you take for granted. But I think the scale of our parks and the expanses of greenery are pretty unique as well, certainly from two people in a Mediterranean country where you just don't get that kind of greenness in the middle of a city. So yeah, that's one part of maybe London's DNA that that that I thought was worth bringing into the conversation as well which they always comment on and love.