Michelle Barrios

Caitlin Morrissey

Michelle, what is the DNA of Barcelona as you see it?

Michelle Barrios

Well, Barcelona, due to strategic location here, is open to Europe and the world. And this is the difference between this small city in Spain and the rest of the of the cities in Spain. It's like it has a really specific location that that is open to everything. And it's also cosmopolitan and advanced because here you see there are many, well, I'm not going to I'm not going to get into other subjects. But there is an important local fabric that resists globalisation in terms of identity. So this is something that – and we will talk about the different type of people that live here at different times, but basically it is an open Mediterranean city open to the world and to Europe. This is the DNA.

And also what I feel is that there's like a special energy in the city that evokes everyone. When people come to visit, they feel this type of energy that I don't know if it's related to the sea, to the type of the size of the city, or maybe the mixture of the different type of people that lives here. So I don't know. I would say that that it's a type of small city that is open to the world. So this is what I can say about the DNA.

Caitlin Morrissey

How many Barcelonas are there, as you see it, is that one of many? What are your thoughts on that?

Michelle Barrios

Well, I was thinking about that. And I'm really curious to notice that I can identify four types of Barcelona's here. So there's one that is a local Barcelona, the Catalan one. Then the other one is like the Spanish immigrants, the rest of Spain. Spanish people that are living here, then the tourist Barcelona, which is the strong part of Barcelona, and the one that moves the economy. And then the expat and international Barcelona. So I am not an expat, but I am part of this international group of people. Actually, I am from Panama, Latin, but I consider myself in this type of group.

So yeah, I can identify these four types of different Barcelona and it's very easy to feel at home when you arrive. But at the same time it's kind of not so easy to learn and integrate with the local culture. So I guess this is why we have a lot of Spanish. For example, I speak Spanish with my cousin and friends, but I understand Catalan, so I prefer to and I'm open to have a really fluent conversation switching languages. And I really like that. I'm not uncomfortable. And I just prefer that everybody is comfortable in the conversation and they are open for that. So sometimes it made me feel better and maybe feel like, let's say, integrating the communication this way. I actually have to do interviews for the event that I organised in Barcelona. So sometimes the local media and the questions are covering, but they are also used to asking government and we see answers in Spanish and then the conversation feels like that and I like it. We are switching all the time. So, yeah, I can say that are four types and I am – I think I can touch all the four types of the groups in Barcelona.

Greg Clark

Michelle just before we go on why don't you just tell us a little bit more about your own work, the kinds of events you're organizing, the communities that you're working with and why Barcelona is what it is for them just to get a flavour of this?

Michelle Barrios

Well, I am a designer, graphic designer. This is what I study. And this is what I've worked in all my life. I'm coming from the advertising agency and I was working in Panama and I have a happy life there. But I decided just to see the world and see other things. So I decided to come to Madrid in 1999. And then after some visits to Barcelona, I decided to move to Barcelona in 2006. So since then, I've been here and also, I was an artist in Panama, so I was related to the entertainment world, so I was a dancer and a singer in Panama while I was a graphic designer. And then I don't know, this type of thing that you're like, “OK, I have to go out and see other things”. And so I this is why when I decided to move to Spain.

So when I started to move my life in Barcelona, I was inspired basically by different things, by the floor. As a skater, I have to pay attention to the surface, right? So the palm trees, the sea and the size of the city for me is really attractive because I don't like to be in a really big, huge city where I have to be taken the metro or so. I go by bike here and I love that. So like when it's super far, it's like 30 minutes by bike. So it's not bad. And we don't need any cars, at least in my life. I'm happy with the bike and the transportation. So I just I can relax, and I go somewhere else sitting in the bus and keep going with my phone doing something.

But then I started this community for roller skating and dancing in 2011. And the idea was to basically bring people to enjoy the same pleasure, to get inspired by cities like Venice Beach in their 80s, 70s. So because I like roller skating and I was skating when I was a little girl, I left it, I quit skating for many years. That was like a childhood thing, memory. Then after all these years, a friend of mine told me that "hey, I bought a pair of skates" and I was like, "Really? I can't believe it. OK, I have to buy my skates, too." And then I came back to skating and I started to go with these people around. So when I was in Madrid, when I started to skate. And I had a really nice time skating there, and then when I moved to Barcelona, of course, I looked for the community of skating here and then I stopped. And then in two thousand eleven, I started this community to promote dancing on stage. And after creating some content as a graphic designer and taking pictures and videos, some people got interested in coming to us and wanted to skate with us. And that was the organic growth of what later was the grand scale of Barcelona, the festival.

So the international meet-ups started in 2012. It was one year after I started the community BCN Roller Dance and then in 2015 I started the festival. So the festival as a brand with a website. And so that was the formal organisation of that. And then after that, I started to be more involved in the international community because the attendees are mostly international. So the locals are still thinking about coming to the festival to get to, I don't know, getting the word used here. That means something like people like foreigners. Right. So it's like they said, this event is for foreigners, not for us, because it is so cool or something. I don't know. So, yeah, it seems then I'm working on this. I was working with BCN the first round that I created in 2011, I started to do just meet ups and then we started to dance for private events. So it was like an agency, actually is an agency right now. It's not like a community or I don't do calls for a meetup, but I do just calls for work, for jobs, skates for – to dance for a private event or for casting.

So also what I was doing in Panama, I was an advertising model, and I was that was like an extra job for me. And if I had a casting, I went there. So all my life has been related to this type of work. So when I of course, when I moved to Madrid, I was looking for the same type of agency and in Barcelona as well. So now I joined, I'm collaborating with my agency and every time they need roller dancers, I work with them as an agency, as a talent agency. And this is what I'm doing with roller dance as a talent agency and scale of Barcelona is now the festival and I'm working for the festival every year. So this is more or less the background that I have from the city.

And of course, I had to be going to talk with entities about the organisation of the festival, asking for submissions, I mean, insurance and production and all of its logistics. I started the world of events because I was involved in design. But now I'm doing events as well. But yeah, that's what I'm doing here. So the event is kind of big for me, I think for an entrepreneur, like let's say it's kind of big for me, but slowly after four years, because next year will be the fifth. This year was the fifth. But we skip this year and we go to the next one. So it will be the fifth anniversary and the learning has been amazing.

Greg Clark

And so, I mean, there's so many things Caitlin and I could ask you, but I'm going to focus just on what I think is the key question, which is why is Barcelona the right place for you to do something like this? Because it's very exciting. It's very creative. It's very entrepreneurial. It's also a community. It's an agency. It's a dimension to the social fabric of the city. Why is Barcelona is better than Madrid or any other place that, you know, to do this?

Michelle Barrios

I like this question. I don't like to compare Barcelona with Madrid because for me, they're so different. And this all depends on what people are looking for when they decide to live in one or the other. I remember when I was there, my friends were like, oh, but you're going to Barcelona and people are kind of close there. And I'm like, I mean, close minded or close. Well, and I was like, well, I'm not moving just because I'm looking for people and moving to a place that inspires me and the crew of friends or the people they come after. And I don't have any problems. I'm social. So for me, it's not difficult to find to make new friends. And I'm not looking for the people when I'm looking for places or spaces that inspire me.

So I think in general, the city, you have to see my view here. I'm talking about Barcelona and you have to see the whole city from here. I'm going to show you the view later. But I think that the city has a special energy and I think also that the geography of Barcelona also inspires many people. In my case, when I was going to continue to promote dancing on stage together, that was at the beach. So that is a nice place. So Barcelona is a touristic place also. So the brand Barcelona is really powerful. So if I just add a couple of things to that, a couple of cool things to the city, to the friends of Barcelona, then I can get something there as what I'm doing now. For example, I was doing some videos and doing some photos with a really nice landscape, really nice view and the roller skates and the music. And then of course they boom, like it. People see that and they want to come here because it reminds them maybe, I don't know, of the time of Venice Beach.

And everybody's comparing that to Venice Beach, actually, because there are palm trees and skates and the music is like, oh, Venice Beach. I'm like, no, it's not Venice Beach. Venice Beach is another city with its own history. And then Barcelona, it's creating its own identity. With all these things happening with Madrid and Barcelona, I have a special love for Madrid as well, because I spent my first time, four years in Spain, living in Madrid for – I stayed for, I don't know, eight years or seven years. And then I had many new experiences because it was the first time that I was living out of my country. And actually I was also like trying a new lifestyle because I was always living in my country. So I had everything I needed. I had my family, my friends, my job, everything there. And then suddenly I'm a foreigner in another place. And that was a new situation.

But at the time I was planning to move. I thought, I just want to leave the world or see other things. I wasn't thinking about papers, about anything, I was really naive when I decided to, when I just arrived. Really, really naive. Not thinking about anything about racism or anything. I haven't had any issues with that, let's say, about racism, for example. Oh, but I did have a situation when I arrived in Madrid to the master degree that I was about to take. I was really excited about it. And it was – I always forget this word. It wasn't what they were selling. It was a lie, basically. And so I started really badly, let's say, with legal situations that I had to face. Of course, that taught me a lot also. And so experiences, this is what makes us right. And I always say that I don't – I can consider Barcelona and Madrid completely different cities, and people, depending on their personalities, they can adapt more to one or the other. I prefer Barcelona because it's my personality. It's more like me. So, yeah.

Greg Clark

There's two things you said I do have to ask you just to say a little bit more about. You said that Barcelona has a special energy. What is that special energy?

Michelle Barrios

Yeah, I try to understand that energy, I don't really know, but I can explain it, maybe express the way I see it, I don't know. I think in my case, I feel that the size of the city makes me feel comfortable because I know that I'm closer to everything. And I don't have to plan in advance too much to do some things. And the spontaneity continuously. You can just do things here. This is one thing that makes me feel comfortable and gives me this type of energy. Also, I think the urban style, the urbanism, the type of design of the city and the type of design of the streets, the sidewalks, make you feel comfortable as well. Every time I have visitors, we have their friends visiting, they feel this special energy, they feel that they are welcome in a way and they are already part of the city.

So the feeling of being already part of the city is something that is not so easy to get, I think. I don't feel that in every city. I think the size for me is the key. The possibility of being able to go around and to walk. That's another thing that makes you feel less comfortable if you have to be taking a taxi or trains or maybe that's when, of course, you don't have this flow. So I think this is good. This is the answer for that energy. Right. Of course, that is always there. And people mentioned the sea all the time. But I think the sea, of course, gives the, let's say successful, people that are looking for the sea because everybody is looking for that.

So I was living in Madrid for all that time without the sea, and I had a good time because there are other things that the city offers. So it's really interesting, the nightlife of Madrid is more intense than in Barcelona. And Barcelona offers other types of things. Yeah.

Greg Clark

Thank you, Michelle. It's a beautiful answer. And there's one other thing you said, which is that you said Barcelona has the perfect brand for the activities that you want to do. Which Barcelona brand is that? What is the reputation or the identity or the message that Barcelona gives that somehow complements what you're trying to do? Tell us about that.

Michelle Barrios

I think it's the internationality. The international aperture. Like if they want to be open to everyone and receive mainly culture and let's say the best of the best things of the culture of all these people visiting and also to present everything in the best way possible, let's say the services or the infrastructure, the city, the city design, the urban, the urban furniture, all these type of things, for example. And then the beach front, you can see some – I don't know if it's called furniture, but this is where you can just sit and relax towards the sea to sit down and you enjoy, let's say. So this type of things, of course, coming from a city like Panama, that is not comparable at all because it's a really small, small country and not the same development. I wasn't used to any of this. So of course, it made me even more notice this type of differences.

And also because I'm very into – I really like psychology, social psychology, even though I didn't study that. I don't know anything about that. But I like to see, and this is what I do with my events, to offer emotions to the people. And I think this is what Barcelona has to offer with its own designs, not just with an architecture, let's say, that Akbar tower that is just in front of me right now, the tower with its lights, that's something that is playful. So you are around, you see the lights and you're like, oh, this is nice. So this type of thing that made you feel emotions, I think this is when you get this feeling of connection with the city. And actually, I find my own speaking out because there are some things that I didn't analyse before, but I think this type of design to make people enjoy life or enjoy the day. This is where when I find the connection and also, for example, to create an event like this one that is basically to have fun, because my event is sports and entertainment because we are on roller skates. But it's a leisure event, so it's not competitive at all. So people come here to have fun and to be happy basically. And people are having fun and they're being very happy when they come to Barcelona. So they are thinking about Barcelona with all this love and magic in their eyes. So I think it's because of that. Because of the design. And I think it's because of the design I think they want people to feel engaged through.

Caitlin Morrissey

Thank you so much, Michelle. And so one of the questions, one of the things that you've been alluding to, I think, especially in the guise of roller-skating, is about the physical structure of the city and the infrastructure. How does that fit into the work that you do and the events that you prepare for the roller-skating community in the city?

Michelle Barrios

I have this really, really nice written text that explains that. And this is about the physical infrastructure, right? Architectural features of the city? What’s interesting is that it's founded as a Roman city. So they are remains in the city that that can be visited, that is something interesting. You see history really close. And also it has been built facing the sea and surrounded by the two rivers and then the whole mountain and then all this. I think that geography inspires people to practice urban sports and outdoor activities. And I think the key that unites people is basically outdoor activities, I would say. And also, well, let's say the sea, the mountains, the sea front is something that people use a lot and then it inspires people a lot, you can see a lot of people doing a lot of different kind of sports. Also in one week if you consider the mountains and also the beach promenades and even the sand with beach volleyball, you see that the beaches are really all full of people playing volleyball, and I personally love to just watch all these people playing because it's amazing, it's like a show.

And then also another thing that is really nice to see here is that you can see dance groups out there dancing. So I've seen like a Chinese group of women. Dancing, I don't know, I guess, a typical dance from China. I don't really know, but there is old Chinese woman dancing. It's really nice to see that. That's that that's another thing that is in an open space. And then you see also swing dancers that are closer to the to the sea front. And also us, you see us dancing on skates, actually, yeah, this is this is another part of the urban activities that you can see. It's really cool that we dance close to the well at the at the seafront. And then when you see people strolling around, they stand there. They stop. They stay there for a while. And they are like just watching an urban spectacle. Right.

And so, yeah, it's another thing that you can see a lot here. Dance, dance in different places. Also break dancers. So I remember when I started, I was like, there's not much people dancing outdoors because I think from my perspective, the dance and the music culture is not so much part of Barcelona, but with all the mixture that we have now here, there you can see more of that. You can see more people dancing outdoors with this, with the speakers introducing more music and that. And also, I've seen that the local authorities are like more relaxed with all these things. It's like that. Is that the natural expression of people that live here? Right. So. I remember that well, actually, when we dance at this point, it's not next to any neighbourhood or next to a building with neighbours or anything, so we don't really bother anyone. So that's also easy for us because we can just stay there for things.

But, yeah, there is also very big, huge spaces here, like forum, that inspires also this type of outdoor activities. For example, the multipurpose architecture from forum because forum was used for a big event and now is used also for activities and specially skating and bicycle and cycling. So I also do cycle, not just transportation, but I also go sometimes out with my husband. He's a cyclist. And he knows a lot about the military and the rules that are around here. So, yeah, basically that.

Caitlin Morrissey

I love the way that you've interpreted Barcelona's openness as its openness to people from around the world and its open outlook, but also the way that life plays out in open in the city. So it seems like a very easy city to understand and see what's really going on, what's at the heart of it, from what you're saying about Barcelona's confidence and its self-expression really coming out over the last few years. And I'd love to know why you think that is.

Michelle Barrios

Yeah, I was I was when I was saying about the music and the dance culture, that is not so much from the local culture and also now that I see that they are open to receive this type of things, to be flexibilised, like how you say that to, to make more flexible their own laws, maybe, or so they are accepting and not accepting, recognizing and improving their own. The way they offer what we have to do, like in public, let's say, to promote groups or collectives or associations. To be self-expressive, to do their own things, I think in general, if I can understand, if I can identify that they don't have this this culture at the same time, I can identify that they are very open to receive this culture from the outside and incorporate that into the city. So that's a really good thing now that I'm thinking about it. It still is. At the beginning, I was like, OK, there's not many people doing this, but at the end, it's now is a different situation than five years ago, for example. And people feel free to do their things. And of course, the police, they know they see from the distance that people are practicing and acting. So. Yeah, that's great.

Caitlin Morrissey

Thank you so much. This is really fascinating, and you're making me want to visit Barcelona.

Michelle Barrios

Oh, that's fascinating to know that! Oh, this is great. I have many, many ideas in my head and sometimes I have this wisdom here and there. I'm better when I write because I am like, OK, the structure, the structure. But, yeah, there's many things that I've also learned and seen from my own experience doing this type of things. Also from – I have to be honest; I suffered a lot also with situations, with people. But at the same time I learned that it's not part of the behaviours of the society. It depends on the education and the way they have been raised. And I am something that I have to say. I'm from Panama, but I'm also coming from a big family. So I'm very open in general. I am used to be sharing everything on the fifth from five kids. So I'm used to share I'm used to think in a group, I like teamwork. I'm fascinated by teamwork. I don't believe that I have to be the star or anything. Sometimes people think like that because I do many things and sometimes, I'm in the spotlight, but not because I'm looking for it. And I really like to create good experiences for the people.

So this is what I'm doing with the festival, by the way. And I'm trying also to make the people that are visiting the festival to know the city because they are so, so into the skating. They can come, they can be coming from the USA and they like they come straight from the airport to join the community. But you have to see the city. You have to see the architecture. And so some people, they don't really know how to travel like, OK, I think I'm going to I'm going to try to incorporate some elements. So they have to just go and, I don't know, tour and things like that so they can just go around and see and enjoy and have a different experience, not just skating, but also getting to know what a different city in Europe.

Caitlin Morrissey

I totally agree, and I think you come at this with so many different lenses and perspectives, but there's one question that we have, which is about common misconceptions that people have about the city. And I'd love to hear from you from all of those different perspectives, whether there's anything that you've encountered, whether there's anything that you thought about Barcelona that turned out to be wrong once you started living here?

Michelle Barrios

It's like that. Well, I'm going to tell you what I will hear, because it's – Barcelona is confused with the whole community of Catalonia, and the whole community is four provinces, Barcelona, the capital and largest city, and then Girona and Lleida and Tarragona. Of course, Barcelona is just the city and the capital. And then the rest is like super rich in culture. So there's always a lot to see out of Barcelona as part of Catalonia, so this is something that people don't really understand, or they don't get shown. And once they get to go out and see all the things that are part of Catalonia, then they see they understand. I think it's something important and also, of course, the whole region of Catalonia is richer, and then Barcelona is basically the disadvantages of the tourism that is struggling a little bit with. Well, [inaudible 00:38:59] knows more about that, but as a citizen that lives here, I think that there has to be a new strategy for the city to try to, well, to incorporate, not to incorporate, but to bring the people to the correct path or to bring the strategy into the right part for the city.

I don't know. I don't know how to explain it better, but, yeah, this is something that that is a misconception, that Barcelona is just the tourism centre, and that's the other thing, is Catalonia is not – is confused with Spain because of the differences. The cultural differences get its own culture. And it's true that I can see from my point of view, not being Catalan or not being Spanish, I see the difference between Barcelona and Madrid a lot. So I can understand that it's like a personality, you'll end up going with a group of people that you feel more comfortable with. And it's because of something, because you share some values and you share some. Yes, so – yeah, there are differences between. Like people think that they are coming to Spain. They are coming to Spain, yes, but then the things that you can find in the south of Spain, it's not the same that you can find in Barcelona, like sangria and flamenco. And then people, they don't really know about the culture that belongs to Catalonia, the language and the cultural difference.

Also, there is something silly that we always remember that is a mistake from people that are visiting Barcelona is that they call Barcelona Barça. And then Barça is the team, the football team and Barna is the just short name for the city. So everybody says Barça, I don't know, like "yeah, I'm coming to Barça next week!" I'm like, you're going to go to the football team or what? But this is something that is so popular. I don't know how this happened, but everybody is saying that. And I'm always trying to correct people. Like Barca, if you if you write it without the ç, then it means another thing. Like a boat, right? And then if you say, yeah, we always enter in this discussion, it's really funny. But yeah, people have to know that this is a region with its own culture that is part of Spain, but it's very different.

So there are some things that it will be nice if people can understand before coming, and I'm trying to educate my crew, my people from the festival, because at the end there are like almost one thousand people that are attending. So I think now at least these people, they will understand a little bit about the culture of the city, I think.

Greg Clark

So because you know something at a very deep level, Michelle, about brands, I think what you just said in the last three minutes is super interesting. Right? So you have a football club that is a global icon of a certain – not just a soccer club, but a way of playing soccer style, which is a brand.

Michelle Barrios

A religion.

Greg Clark

A religion. Then you have a destination, which is a kind of visitor brand. Come to Barcelona to do what you do when you go to Barcelona on holiday, or to a festival. And then you have something to do with Barcelona, the city that you were talking about earlier on. And I suppose my question for you, as somebody who lives there and knows about branding, is, is there kind of a clash of different brands with something contradictory there? Or is this a kind of brand family where all of these things coexist with a kind of perfect relationship between them? Is this a problem family or is it a happy family, I guess, is the question?

Michelle Barrios

I think it's a problem because because you you search Barcelona on Google and the first thing that shows up is a football team. And I think the football team itself is so, so strong, so powerful. That is true, that you do travel somewhere like wherever in the world you find someone with a t shirt or a Barça logo or something is really amazing. And so I think it's a problem because if, like, one brand that belongs to another brand is eating the other one, I don't know. It's more or less eating, I think. I would say that if everybody knows their roles and respects the other one and also not just respect, but also empower the other one, then there will be a way of coexistence. But I don't see that. But in general, I don't see that people are –what I see in the social behaviour is that because of the way they were raised or whatever, that the people are individual, individualistic, and that doesn't help in many ways. That doesn't help. For example, in a situation like this one, like I believe in collaborations. I believe in the collaborating, the friends' collaboration, and I believe in the power of unifying, uniting different forces. Right?

So for me, it's kind of a problem. And also Barcelona has a stronger brand than the whole Spain, like the brand of the city of Barcelona, is much more powerful than the brand of Spain. And then Barça the team is another level for me. This is what I see. And I'm not interested in the football, but I don't have to be into football to see that. It's so powerful that it monopolises everything, like the news also. So I like sports, but I don't like to be seeing just that.

Greg Clark

So, Michelle, I think I heard you just say something really interesting, I'm going to say it in a very simple way, that football club Barcelona is more famous even than holiday destination Barcelona. And holiday destination Barcelona is more famous even than the city of Barcelona. And the city of Barcelona is more famous even than the country called Spain.

Michelle Barrios

Yeah, yeah. That's a great summary. That's great. That's great. Yeah, it is like this. Or at least this is how I see it. This is how I live it also. And because I was also living in Madrid, so I can compare like I know another part of Spain, and it doesn't have anything to do with the brand of Barcelona, and also Barcelona has a lot of potential still. A lot of potential that I see. And also, I see that there's good willings, and this is great, also. The goodwill of the city to be open to incorporate new things. And these, for example, when I'm going to meetings to talk about the event or to express what I'm doing or even to ask for permission to do some activities that are not so known here, they are always open to listen. And they do their best to be open to this initiative.

So I don't know, I have I have good experiences in general here. But I am also a critic. I'm an observer, and I'm also working, of course, I'm working in design and branding as well, and I have my own brand. So I move my brands, so I experiment a lot with that. And I can see on a different level everything that happens in bigger levels, in bigger brands, in my own experiment and my own project. So even crisis, I don't know, a big crisis for a brand, it could be for me something very small. But I learned from the others and I learned. So I see everything, so I think Barcelona, it's a good point now to reshape and to do the strategy, do another strategy, right, to keep going. And also to work together with Barça, for example, it will be nice if they can work together. I don't know anything about how they do the branding here anymore than me, but this is what I see from the outside. And I think there's a lot of potential here.

Greg Clark

Well, again, you said something very interesting, I think, which is that Barcelona is a young brand and in a certain way a new brand with the opportunity for a lot of brand affiliation and affinity, which I think is a very interesting point, whereas Spain in particular, and maybe also Madrid – but I'm not putting words in your mouth, Michelle – these are kind of old brands that it is difficult to add things to. They are closed brands in a certain way. 

Caitlin Morrissey

You mentioned that Barcelona has a Catalan identity that is very different from the identity of the Spanish cities and that you can feel that. And what does that feel like to you?

Michelle Barrios

I think, well, from my point of view and the way I live here and also the place I live and my neighbourhood and then my experiences with my event, talking with people, and I see that – and maybe I'm getting into a political situation here, but I think that it's a risk people have to be respectful with the identity that people have, identify that and also respect it and understand it, and then sometimes I don't feel that from the rest of the country they show the respect not just for Catalonia, I mean for all the regions that have their own cultures. So let's say Basque country, things like that. Their own identities can be returned to the whole to the whole country.

For me, that's like an important element of the whole country to have these different variations. Right. So for me, it is something that honestly, I cannot just go in their culture because I am not Catalan. Unfortunately, I don't speak the language just because I, as I said before, it's like I speak in Spanish, they speak Spanish. And then I tend to just – I go to events and stuff like that. But it's always in Catalan I answer, or I ask in Spanish. So it flows like that. And for me it has been OK with them. But I don't know a lot. As I said before, that is not so easy to learn or to get in. So sometimes people are kind of close in their own ways because maybe there's no connection with the people that are not part of their culture. That's reality. So I am I have very good friends that are Catalan, but actually very good friends. But I don't participate in anything that is local culture. I identified myself better with when it's something more international that is happening in Brazil, no international. So I – for example, if you go to the rest of – to Girona, for example, and you go there and you go around the city and you'll see the architecture, the history that you can read there. And people are very nice to you, all this type of thing. They speak in Catalan to you. Of course, there are some people that they are very uncomfortable speaking in Spanish. And as soon as I understand, I don't feel bad. This is something that happens all the time with people that are not from here or people that are just that doesn't understand their culture, is that they think that they have been they are being rude. And I don't think they are being rude. But it's true that some people, they don't really speak Spanish and for them it's really uncomfortable to speak Spanish. So I don't know. I always try to be respectful and to accept and answer back in the best way I can. I understand. I understand possibly everything, but I think it's important that people can have to be respectful with the others, understand the cultures, but being open from both sides, not just from us that are here, but also from the Catalans. I don't know, this is what I think.

Caitlin Morrissey

Thank you, Michelle. The final question is what do you think the future holds for Barcelona and how may its DNA shape that?

Michelle Barrios

Yeah, well, the future is uncertain for everyone at this moment. But from my personal perspective and thinking about the future of my events in this city, I am positive about the adaptability of the future. Like we have to be open to new situations, new ideas, new proposals. And I have the feeling that the city has the same attitude about it. And it's like, OK, let's think about the future in a positive way. So I am getting ready to prepare the fifth edition of my festivals in the festival, and I am thinking that, of course, whatever happens, and this is one of my phrases, whatever can happen and who knows and these type of things, but I don't stop. I just go. I keep going on this. I see I see that something happens. And then I have to adapt to the new situation. But in general, I just keep going. And I think I see that the city is doing the same. So I think that the key is to keep going and to also improvise when it's needed and to keep the productivity and to keep the motivation on. To be able to achieve things.