Professor Felipe Correa

Caitlin Morrissey 

What is the DNA of Mexico City as you understand it?

Felipe Correa 

Well, Caitlin, thank you once again for having me here on the podcast for a second time. Very happy to be here and to be able to speak about Mexico City this time, which is also a city where I’ve developed a lot of applied research projects and urban design projects. To answer your question, I would actually say that we could define the DNA of Mexico City in two strains or in two ways. There are many different ways to define the DNA of cities, but if I had to choose, I would focus on two.

I think one thing that makes Mexico City quite unique is that in its sort of very long history, it’s always been the capital of something. It was sort of the capital of the Aztec Empire before it was Mexico City, right? It was the capital of the silver trade, a very important sort of silver market during the colonial period, then during the Republican period, of course, the capital of Mexico, a very centralised administrative body. And I think in many ways this has given Mexico City a regal quality throughout the ages. Mexico City has a certain weight and importance. I think that comes from always being the capital of something. The counterpoint to this might be that this sort of regal quality has not come without hard work.

I think the other aspect that’s extremely important about Mexico City has to do with its relationship and fight with its immediate environment, primarily that of water. Mexico City, of course, was founded over a lake. A lake that was drained over time to secure dry land for urban development. And this sort of incredible, sort of watery or soft soil, soft ground has actually had a huge impact in the development of the city. For example, a significant amount of the lake was brackish water primarily to the east, fresh water to the west. This had a huge dichotomy in the way that access to water was provided, making access to potable water much more difficult along the east because of the brackish condition than along the west, establishing the west as the wealthier part of the city and the east as the poorer part of the city. So I think for me, this sort of global importance of Mexico City has to be framed in relation to its most immediate environmental condition that has had a huge impact in the way the city has shaped. And I think these two things shape a very unique DNA for Mexico City.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you so much for so clearly establishing what those strands are as you see them. And I just wanted to ask a little bit more about this regal quality that you identify as being part of Mexico City’s DNA as a follow-up. And to ask you where we see this regal quality, how it manifests, what that feels and looks like in the city? Is it architectural? Is it cultural? Is it a sense of self? How do we sort of understand this in this quality in Mexico City?

Felipe Correa 

I think it is all of the above. And obviously, this manifests architecturally and spatially in many ways. I mean one aspect that for me is fascinating, and many people have mentioned this in the past, but it’s, for example, the scale of public spaces, right? This sort of forging of east and west in public spaces that, at least during the colonial period, were defined in very Spanish terms but actually had the scale of the Aztecs. These were public spaces like the Zócalo and many others in the city that were of a scale that were never before seen in the Western world, right? That in Europe, it was impossible to actually have sort of that monumentality in terms the scale of public spaces. So I do think that, for example, you see it in public space. You see it in the scale and ambition of certain projects, even beyond sort of the colonial period. There’s an incredible public housing project developed by Mario Pani in the ‘50s called Tlatelolco, which has some parts that are good, has some parts that are bad. But there’s a funny story which is that in the ‘50s, he actually sent photographs of the project to be published in L'Architecture d'Aujourd'hui in Paris and they sent the photographs back with a note saying that they did not publish photos of models of unbuilt work. But these were photographs of the real project. It was so big in scale and the photos were so beautifully abstract that people in the magazine thought that they were models, not the real project. So I think that this speaks of, I think, a scale and ambition of projects that Mexico City has that, I think, is unparalleled with many other cities.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you again. That story is hilarious. I would love to have seen the images that they sent and the disbelieving reactions to the beauty of them. You began to obviously, there, describe what it is that makes Mexico City, Mexico City and perhaps this way of differentiating between east and west Mexico City partly there through the sort of inheritance of the water and the different immediate environments as you described. Is there anything else that you would like to say about that question of what makes Mexico City, Mexico City, and if there is, in what ways the city is one and in what ways the city is multiple and plural?

Felipe Correa 

I think that’s a great question. I would say that Mexico City in many ways is one in that, like many major urban centres, it is a space of prosperity that attracts migrants from all over the country and in many ways all over Latin America. Many people move to Mexico City to make it in the same way that many people move to New York City or move to London as a space of opportunity to really prove themselves and succeed, right? If you can make it in Mexico City, you can make it anywhere. There’s a little bit of that belief and I think that that is a certain unifying quality. I do also think, having said that, Mexico City is, of course, a city of extreme socio-economic difference. And actually sort of moving through Mexico City or travelling, visiting the city, you can actually see extreme differences in wealth that sort of are perhaps more extreme than in many other parts of Latin America, not just because people who are poor are extremely poor, I think you see that in many other parts of Latin America, but the level of wealth that you see in Mexico City, I think, is unparalleled. I do not know of any other city in Spanish America that has that magnitude of capital.

Caitlin Morrissey 

And you mentioned that this is a place that has that sort of unifying quality of a place that if you make it here, you can make it anywhere. And this sort of leads me on to the next question, which is about who lives or comes to Mexico City? Why do they live here? What is the opportunity of the city, and how would you understand that in relation to the different people who might come to the city, and perhaps over time as well, because I’m sure that that has evolved and changed as the city has grown and shifted too?

Felipe Correa 

Well, I think that in many ways Mexico City has always been seen as a space of incredible challenges and opportunities. And I think there are certain industries that have actually been influential in assisting this. One of them for me, and one of that is most fascinating, is Televisa and the entire production of pop stars, either for soap operas or singers, etc, right? Mexico City really became the epicentre of TV production, of music production for Latin America. And this actually created, or established, I think, a creative class that gave the southern part of Mexico City, specifically, quite an identity, right? Many people that actually made it in the ‘40s and ‘50s, ‘60s, like golden age of Mexican cinema would also want a very particular lifestyle that had to do with sort of very sort of modern architecture that then created a group of architects that actually were tied to that practice. So there was always a very, I think, progressive agenda that attracted a lot of talent into the city. I think another counterpart to this is UNAM the university in the south of the city, that, of course, from a more intellectual perspective attracted a lot of exceptional sort of thinkers all throughout Latin America. If you really think about it, especially today, if you want to be published and be successful in Spanish, it most likely happens in Mexico City.

Caitlin Morrissey 

That’s fascinating. And is there anything else to say about the sorts of institutions and infrastructures that are present or have come to be founded in Mexico City that then support this sort of creative talent, as you just highlighted, but also this sort of academic richness, and this publishing platform, I suppose, as well to be seen?

Felipe Correa 

The publishing platform, the performing arts, I think museums, an incredible collection of museums. I think you also have a city that has positioned itself extremely well as an important banking centre and business centre for all of Latin America. And I think that that also brings a very different type of let’s say immigrant into the city.

Caitlin Morrissey 

And I know that we’ll come on to some of these more social questions as we continue in the interview. But to pick back up on what you started with, I suppose, which is the immediate environment in Mexico City, and to ask you a little bit about the geological and geographical, the climatic, the environmental factors that have shaped the city. And you’ve already begun to talk through water and the fresh water and the brackish water, is there anything else you’d like to add to that in terms of understanding the DNA of Mexico City?

Felipe Correa 

Yeah. I actually think that sort of Mexico’s geology and its relationship to water is both its origin and, in many ways, it could be its demise. Today, of course, Mexico City brings potable water from approximately 200 to 250 kilometres away. The infrastructure required to bring potable water to the city is perhaps the most daunting public work project in the city. It also relies enormously on tube wells and groundwater extraction. And the drying of the river in relationship to continuous groundwater extraction has caused Mexico City to be one of the urban areas with the greatest level of subsidence in the world.

What does this mean? The moment you extract underground water, the soil compacts, and the city sinks. This is so grave in Mexico City that it can no longer drain water by gravity because all the infrastructure has sunken so much that it now needs to pump its water. Generally, most of the storm water and potable water comes from the west. It is used in the city and then it is drained towards the northeast. Today, most of the draining happens through artificial means by pumping water out because of the sinking of the city. And I think one of the most important or defining projects for Mexico City in the 21st Century is to rethink its hydrological system from one that is heavily engineered, right? It’s a project that exemplifies all the virtues of the mid-20th Century, of the sort of first half of the 20th Century. And I think today it needs to rethink its drainage, its entire water infrastructure, I think in a much more passive and integrated manner.

Caitlin Morrissey 

And I suppose that thinking about the future of the city, and it was fantastic what you said that the water is both its origin and its demise, of course, and water is more important than anything in terms of sustaining life anywhere, but especially in large, multimillion population cities. I suppose the climate risk in Mexico City is profound, given the current challenges it’s already facing in terms of its environment?

Felipe Correa 

Yes, I think, first, I think it’s very important that-- we always speak about cities in terms of water, never in terms of waters. And I think cities have multiple waters, right? You have rainwater, you have potable water, you have sort of rainwater that then becomes storm water and its management. So I think-- you have groundwater. So I think one thing that’s extremely important in Mexico City is that it understands that it needs a project that looks at all of these waters in a coordinated manner. And this relates to your question about environmental uncertainty, about climate change and environmental uncertainty because as climate gets more extreme. The rate of rain, for example, in short periods of time will increase, also the rate of droughts. And these things will actually exacerbate the problems that Mexico City already has. But I would argue that while sort of climate change is extremely important to take into account in a city like Mexico City, I think it’s also important not to be fatalistic about its future and understand that investment in public works that deals with water infrastructure can actually address a lot of these issues effectively.

Caitlin Morrissey 

I think the point that you made about the various different waters is a very important one to make as well. Part of what we’ve been discussing here is the role of infrastructure in the city. But some of your work has also focused on public transport infrastructure in Mexico City and using public transport as a lens through which to understand and analyse and see the city. So as I move on to the question about the physical infrastructure and architectural features that shape the city, is there anything, firstly, that you’d like to say about public transport infrastructure? And then on to the broader question about some of the other built environment characteristics that have, as you see it, sort of reveal or allow us to experience the DNA of the city?

Felipe Correa 

I think that the issues of public transportation and the infrastructure of mobility are crucial to the history and evolution of Mexico City. Mexico City is a city that put a lot of time, effort and money in building a robust mobility infrastructure, primarily, throughout the 1800s and in the first half of the 20th Century, all the way until maybe the ‘60s and ‘70s until the 1968 Olympics which were a very important sort of period for the city. But most of this investment focused on mobility infrastructure on a north-south axis. What we’ve actually seen in the last 20 to 30 years is that most of the urban growth and the urban movement is east-west. Many people, a huge working force that lives in areas like Neza in the east, and actually commute on a regular basis to the west all the way to sort of new satellite cities like Santa Fe. So I think one aspect that’s extremely important about Mexico City today is not only how does it rethink its mobility infrastructure, but how does it complement it so that it can actually serve this east-west axis better?

The other aspect that, I think, is very important to mention is a project that was built in the last two decades, which I don’t know if you’ve heard about, but it’s called the Periferico which is a double-decker ring road around the hyper centre of the city. And this has been very controversial because it was a very expensive project, primarily, sort of built for private mobility. In fact, the second floor has a more expensive toll than the ground level, and if you can afford that toll, you actually move in your private car much faster throughout the city. And I think projects like the Periferico have actually raised an important question, which is, should Mexico City continue to be building mobility infrastructure as monofunctional pieces with the same mindset as they were being built in the ‘50s and ‘60s? Or should the city begin to think of a much more integrated mobility infrastructure that relies more on mass transit, that incorporates public spaces and public services in relationship to mobility infrastructure? And I think these questions are what need to define the future of mobility in Mexico City for the next decade.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Is there anything that you’d like to say about the architecture? And also, I suppose there’s a question here about seeing the city as sort of the palimpsest, and what sort of layers of the city’s history do we see in the city today through its infrastructure, through its public spaces and the built environment?

Felipe Correa 

That’s another aspect of Mexico City that’s quite fascinating, which is the layers of pre-colonial, the colonial period, the Republican era, the more contemporary sort of Mexico City, and how they all, in many ways, almost like a set of Blade Runner, come together and are revealed simultaneously. And you can be walking through certain parts of the historic centre and see very sort of beautiful pre-colonial sort of public spaces that then have been sort of reshaped during the colonial period and then reinvented again in the Republican era. And I think that this layering of history is extremely important for an understanding of the city. I think it’s something that Mexico City has done quite well, for example, in the way that it has built institutions to preserve it and explain it. One of my most favourite spaces in Mexico City is the Museo de Antropología, the Anthropology Museum, not just because it has an exceptionally beautiful building, but because I think it puts in-- it gives value to these layering of cultures that have forged a much more powerful cosmic city.

Caitlin Morrissey 

So fascinating. I am longing to visit Mexico City next year. It’s on my bucket list, and that is one of the museums I will be going to first.

Felipe Correa 

It is really quite phenomenal. And I think you see in just in everyday spaces of the city, in the quality of its architecture, in the quality of-- in the care that’s put in how they’re actually built, this regal quality that I was speaking of before.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you so much. Moving on to a slightly larger scale, and then we’ll come back to the people within Mexico City. But how do you understand the role that Mexico City plays within Mexico? And then also the Spanish-speaking Americas and perhaps the world more broadly? What is it that Mexico City does at these different scales, and how is it distinctive? And this is a very open and large question that you can sort of approach from wherever your instincts take you.

Felipe Correa 

Yeah, no, I think it’s actually a very important one because I think it is one that defines Mexico City. If I would have been able to give you a third DNA, right, I might have actually said the importance of Mexico City in Spanish America. And I think that there are two-- let me answer the question by looking at two aspects. One, Mexico City, as a capital, is a very centralised administration. So Mexico City really represents every state in the country and in many ways makes decisions for the country at large. And I think you see the way that that sort of is reflected in some pieces of architecture and infrastructure. One of my most favourite spaces in Mexico City is the Central de Abasto, the largest wholesale food market in the world. It is so big that ECA, the engineering company that built it, had to team up with the military to be able to deliver it on time. You can see it on Google Earth. It is really a gigantic wholesale market. Why? Because it is a hub. I don’t know if today is as important as it was in the ‘70s and ‘80s but really it was the epicentre where most food that was distributed nationwide came through that market. I think if you go back in time, most silver that got distributed in the world came through Mexico City. It was part of the main silver trading route. So I think Mexico City, both at a national, at an international scale, has always been at the crossroads of something.

And I think even until today, Mexico City is the reference point for the production of a lot of Spanish-speaking culture, and primarily pop culture. I grew up in Ecuador with television that was significantly produced in Mexico, and this had, I mean, I realise it now, I didn’t realise it then, but it has a huge impact in the way that certain sort of language and slang that people in other parts of Latin America use. Certain popular heroes like Chespirito, right, one of the most important and all of the different shows that he produced, El Chavo del Ocho, El Chapulín Colorado. These were shows that portrayed Mexican life, primarily Mexico City life, in the home of most people in Spanish-speaking America. And I think that this gave Mexico City a space in the collective memory of continent that is quite unique. I cannot think of another city that might have this level of importance in the continent.

Caitlin Morrissey 

That’s so fascinating to know just how these sort of cultural traditions and languages, as you said, from Mexico City, were being exported across the continent through television as you were growing up. So it really does paint such a strong picture of the sort of influence of the city culturally.

Felipe Correa 

It continues to happen, right? Today, it might be through social media. But Mexico City is really an incredible epicentre of culture, and I think by now it’s actually moved beyond language borders. The art scene in Mexico City today is one of the most important art scenes in the world. If you actually go to certain neighbourhoods-- I was there maybe three weeks ago and one of the things that really struck me is that if you go to certain areas like Colonia Roma the number of expats living there is huge. You have people, especially with the shift in work structure now that you can work remotely, many Americans, many Europeans that have decided to move to Mexico City because they are getting great quality of life for a third of the price even though it’s gotten significantly more expensive, and can live there and work out of New York, out of London. And I think that this is something that is drastically changing in real time, the DNA of Mexico City. An incredible influx of global culture.

Caitlin Morrissey 

That’s really fascinating. Because I suppose one of the questions to ask you is, you mentioned that Mexico is very centralised and Mexico City is almost a sort of-- it represents a lot of the rest of the country, and it sort of makes decisions on their behalf. Or it’s sort of the place through which, like you said, food comes through, or silver is exported out from, and to what extent-- so you mentioned that the population is evolving through global cultures, and as expats are coming to sort of, I suppose, recognise the incredible quality of life that the city has to offer. And through my research, realised that Mexico City, Mexico is one of the first-- one of the only nations in the world to be named after its capital city. I think that’s correct, I’m correct in saying that.

So what is the relationship, as you see it, between Mexico and Mexico City, recognising that sometimes when there’s a city with this dominant centralising quality that the relationship with the rest of the country can sometimes be, at times, fractious or fraught? How do you read the sort of relationship between the country and the city, acknowledging that the city existed long before the country?

Felipe Correa 

I mean, I actually think that that’s an interesting question. I mean, from my perception, I think that there’s this dual relationship between pride and discomfort, right? So I think most Mexicans, and of course, I’m not Mexican, so I’m just sort of thinking out loud, and this is my hypothesis, right? But I would argue that, on the one hand, most Mexicans that I’ve talked to are extremely proud of Mexico City and rightfully so. It is an exceptional urban experiment. In many cases, of course, there is some frustration in the way that resources are allocated. What Mexico City gets versus other cities get. There’s always that level of contestation. But you also have to remember that what we speak of, of Mexico City, the metropolitan area of Mexico City, is also made up of a multiplicity of cities. So I would argue that that contestation also happens within the metro area, is not as homogeneous as we would sort of think it might be. And I think it’s important to distinguish between sort of the power of the national government that happens to be in Mexico City versus the complexities of a series of municipalities that have been annexed together.

Caitlin Morrissey 

So with a few minutes left, I’ll ask you about Mexico City’s most influential leaders as you see them, and these can be sort of leaders that have put the city on the map, but they can also be the quiet leaders who perhaps don’t always get the global recognition.

Felipe Correa 

Yeah, look once again, when we’re talking about a city like Mexico City, the number of leaders that we can put on the table is endless, right? And it might also change from person to person. So perhaps I am more interested in mentioning a few people that I think have been extremely influential in the shaping of the city. And it’s actually going to come from the lens of architecture. I actually think that one thing that’s extremely powerful about Mexico City, but also about Latin America at large, is that you have architects that have been extremely engaged in city and nation building without relinquishing their responsibilities of an aesthetic project. Because it’s much easier to be a concerned citizen when you give up your design ambitions. But to be able to be an incredibly successful architect and deliver incredibly powerful projects while also contributing to a process of nation building and city building, I find that extremely difficult. And I think Latin America in general is quite prolific in producing architects that can speak to a larger national and metropolitan ambition. And in that context, I actually think that somebody like Mario Pani did an incredible job in actually shaping the city, the modern Mexico City. Tlatelolco is perhaps his most famous housing project, I actually think it’s the least interesting one. I think the Complejo Presidente Alemán is really a masterpiece on how affordable housing could actually produce a quality domestic environment. So I would say Mario Pani has been an incredibly important figure in the evolution of the city.

I think architects like Luis Barragán, which, of course, was an incredible architect but he was also, and this is perhaps less known, but a very prolific developer. He developed a lot of land in some of the most important sort of suburbs of Mexico City in the ‘40s, ‘50s and ‘60s. El Pedregal, Torres de Satélite. I think these were all architects that were, of course, interested in building projects and to a certain degree sort of making a living out of architecture but they were also very interested in building a build legacy that went beyond basic service provision and actually constructed a very important cultural sort of a backbone through architecture and build space.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Yeah, thank you for highlighting those projects and sort of the quality of Mexico City’s architects. And I thought what you said about not giving up their sort of design ambitions was really a powerful thing to say.

I’d like to ask you about the myths that you hear being told about Mexico City, and perhaps some of these were the stories that were captured in the films and the television and the literature that you encountered from the vantage point of Ecuador, but also then your sense of how well understood the city is and if there are misconceptions? So they are two different questions, but you can answer them together if you like.

Felipe Correa 

Look, I think all cities have myths and misconceptions when it comes to a city of a scale like Mexico City, those sort of are amplified in a manner that’s commensurate to the scale of the city. For me, maybe I’ll answer this question in a more anecdotal manner and in a more personal manner. I had never visited Mexico City until I was like in my 30s, a few years ago. No, it’s been a while. And when I arrived, what was shocking for me was to realise that there was a Spanish-speaking capital with that scale and economic power, and that, for me, was the most impressive thing. The fact that I was witnessing a city that had a magnitude that I did not believe existed in the Spanish-speaking world. And I think that that’s one of the biggest misconceptions of people that have never been to Mexico City, they underestimate its scope and scale.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you so much for your thoughts about Mexico City and for being so generous again, with your personal reflections and also all of your expertise.